Fritchman on Evolution

Evolution? I laugh at the idea of it. What a pathetic notion. I cast evolution aside like a game for peasants, reserved for lesser, weaker species. I have reached sentience, reflexion.. I have gained a mastery of rational, causal perception that does away with the need for evolution. I am one. I perceive in two. I live in three. I transcend in four. I exist in all. Now, I devolve back again. The charred and bloody grail of hidden knowledge in hand, I walk back into the feral dark and green. At the grotto I am restored to primordial bestial form, a Beast-God. Preach of your Hubris Galactica and leave me be, for I have seen the hands and faces of gods.. and they are harsh of claw and fang.

Hakim Bey and pederasty

Do any ONAs ever feel conflicted with the appraisal of Hakim Bey, even though he’s an admited pederast? I ask because The ONA in their literature insists children are not to be used as opfers because of their normal innocense. As interesting as the idea of temporary Autonamous Zones are, they don’t redeem Hakim Bey, since we know what his character is, it wouldn’t be a loss at all, were he to be culled?

  • Ray Mörder It wouldn’t bother me in the least to cull the entirety of the NAMBLA organization. Some acts are beyond redemption.
  • Reuven Shiloah While not addressing pederasty per se, it would be interesting to see what some of the members of this group feel about passages such as the following, excerpted from FENRIR Volume III No. 2 in the article “The Girl Goddess” authored by S.R.:

    “Being a teacher, I had for a long time been aware of how some girls embodied some features of the goddess in her youthful aspect. Sometimes, this was expressed in a sexual way, sometimes it was not.

    One girl in particular stands out in memory. She was twelve at the time, a slim thing with long often unruly sandy coloured hair whose eyes at time suggested a sexual understanding of someone much older. Sometimes she would look at me and smile, as if she knew my secret, thrusting her burgeoning breasts out. Sometimes she seemed to be saying ‘I want you to kiss me.’” Yet, when these fleeting moments had gone, she was just like any other girl of her age. It was almost as if in those moments the girl goddess was teasing and tempting me.”

    While not wanting to ruin the ending for those who have not read it – the teacher, in her position of authority over a minor – is not dispatched by an ONA death squad.

  • Kevin Rockhill Too much of a soft and pointless target for me, if I was inclined to undertake such a venture.
  • Nathaniel Mortlock I say CULL.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn The ONA is full of contradictions. On the one hand, the vast majority of initiates seem violently opposed to diddlers of any type. On the other hand, you have things like “The Girl Goddess” and VERY unconventional modes of sexuality practiced in the Rounwytha Way. So which way is the right way? Not touching kids and killing pedophiles. That’s the right way.
  • Ivan Grozny Interesting, just be ready for consequences. To be so evil, so heretical….transgressions over taboos….ya would think anything goes for some. Is evil a certain limit you will not go beyond???If so are you even a satan? Are you still evil? Or opfers… Pfffft. Fk a test….if they gotta go… They gotta go. It should all be up to the satan.
  • Ivan Grozny Btw. I fucked plenty of grown woman while I was under 16 so……good for the goose???
  • Ray Mörder Seems there are often two schools of thought on this: no rules, or rules. Regardless of inconsistencies in ONA material, there is always a guideline of noble vs ignoble, and even in actions that can be considered controversial there is a reason, method, purpose for the action that is supra personal. So, what is the purpose behind such acts? Does it advance evolution of the individual or Cosmos? Or is the proponent using “Satanism” as an excuse to indulge in petty fetishes without responsibility? To hide behind individualism or “to each his own” without identifying the intended purpose beyond the individual is hardly “Satanism” but perhaps hedonism or some other such “ism”. Where is the change, evolution, advancement, transcendence in an individual indulgence that serves only a fetish? Without this identification I believe any debate is subjective.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn ^Agreed. I see two main tendencies in Satanism: Apollynian, and Dionysian. That is, one of purity and one of indulgence. Regardless of which one prefers, it is important that one utilizes the experiences had toward higher evolution. Just like it does no good to read books simply for the sake of reading books, it does no good to indulge just for the sake of indulgence. One must strive in all that they do to push wider the inner Nexion. That’s the best way to determine who’s the real deal and who’s phoney–do they do it all for fun, or do they do it to experience, to learn, and to grow?
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Propagating a culture of victimhood in regard to youthful sexuality upholds a weakened, victimized society, yoked by repression. Pederasty was integral to the social order of Greece because it strengthened and educated new generations, rather than telling them they must adopt a neurotic fear of molestation.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I can understand that. I discovered my sexuality at a very young age but it was with others my own age–not adults.
  • Ivan Grozny Some of the best sexual experiences for me was in my teens with woman in their 30s- 40’s. It gave me such a thrill. Matt Dalton Wilbourn you feel I was molested?
  • Ivan Grozny Ray Mörder what exactly is advancing the cosmos or individual through this?
  • David Fritchman Let us keep in mind that plenty of cultures throughout society included pedophilia in varying ways as part of their everyday sexual indulgence, and the concept of “taboo” has only recently applied to it. For most, sex itself (unless for reproduction) is not at all an evolutionary act, though we don’t condemn those who simply enjoy sex for pleasure. The only real “taboo” in pedophilia is individuated: 1.)There are billions of beautiful women, I’m too proud to degrade myself by seducing a child. 2.)Society has rules, even though I don’t; I don’t want to go to prison, and there are billions of beautiful women. However, nobody can claim with any validity that pedophilia is a non-Satanic act if somebody simply enjoys it. There are no rules.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I beg to differ in that sex by and large lacks evolutionary value outside of procreation–it is a powerful means of opening the inner Nexion and in particular stimulating the sacral chakra. And Ivan most people by their teens are already young adults regardless of how society treats and influences them. I’m talking about sexual experiences that happened before I was even 10.
  • David Fritchman Matt, sex is a tool just like any, and can be put toward that goal. If pedophilia were incorporated into ritual, it too would function as just a tool. I believe the question here is less about age and morality, and much more about the violation of will. If a child consents, it is their will. You cannot draw a concrete line deciding if their are capable of making that decision. However, we do know that sexual attraction does not begin to manifest as lust until puberty, so a child under 10 seems unlikely to desire such contact. But even so, the act is evil by our definition of the word, and we cannot forbid the act. We can, however, choose to punish those who do it in a way that violates our standards.
  • Ray Mörder Using the example of the ancient Greeks, the premise is that it was done for a purpose other than individual fetish. Although that could be contested, as could it’s value to the overall advancement of Greek culture and society, it still holds to the supra personal nature of such acts.
    Ivan, I don’t believe pedophilia serves an evolutionary function to the individual or otherwise, so I could not give you an answer to what the evolutionary purpose is. However, evolution has been a term used to infer not just reproduction, but in the overall development of the individual, society and Cosmos. Again, concerning the Greeks and other archaic cultures, the life expectancy was limited in comparison, as was the limited nature of psychology and the effects of such acts. Assuming the legitimacy in the value of pedophilia or other such acts, that there is value and a goal beyond the individual is paramount.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi As for learning about sex, it is in the best interest of the current order of society, and is indeed perceived as the only correct approach, that a young person should learn about sex with their peers. But would this be the most logical approach with other areas of education of experience, to be influenced by those equally ignorant rather than to be guided by an older, wiser mentor? If a person learns through confused fumbling and limited information, does this not prolong a state of inferior self-knowledge, and even actively hinder it for many to the point where they are permanently arrested in a confused state throughout their lifetime? The reason it may be seen as sinister to regard a child as a serious being deserving and capable of an empowering education is because it can edify the child rather than leaving them to their own devices to messily develop in a mundane culture which seeks to keep children mundane and limited in their own understanding of who they are and what they are capable of, and sexuality is a part of this.
  • David Fritchman Ray, what about the Romans? They had sex with kids just because it was fun. It was stress-relieving and allowed high-functioning public officials to successfully run a Republic. As long as they upheld their public duties of manhood, nobody was thought to have done anything wrong.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Kinda like how Jerry Sandusky was able to successfully coach a football team because he had sex with kids for fun?
  • David Fritchman Exactly like Jerry Sandusky, but if his football players were writing national legislation.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Need I also bring the Catholic Church into this?
  • David Fritchman You can, but the clergy aren’t writing anything of importance either.
  • Ray Mörder Fun is subjective, not necessarily evolutionary nor necessary. One could argue sex in general, masturbation, exercise, meditation, etc are stress relieving and could perform the same function.
    There are always rules, individual or otherwise, including
    having no rules. I have yet to read anything concerning the actual psychological effects of pedophilia that suggests it is beneficial. Perhaps I have simply yet to come across it, or the subject has been biased by contemporary views. Then again, perhaps the focus of its proponents has been on the benefit to the adult who enjoys it rather than the child.
    Assuming the premise that education is invaluable for the sexuality of a child, that doesn’t ecessarilt mandate actual sexual contact between experienced adult and inexperienced child. As the football comparison, the coach doesn’t get out there and tackle the running back in order to properly coach.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Is pedophilia justifiable as long as the person doing it is accomplishing something? By that reasoning, Jimmy Savile was an a-okay guy.
  • David Fritchman We can’t prove decisively that pedophilia is of a detriment to a child with the proper desire and mindset, either. Again, the situation is individualized. Of the ancient cultures to practice such indulgence, either for virtuous or indulgent reasons, it never seemed to be an acknowledged social problem, so comtemporary views are thus largely to blame for any “damage” done to the child. We cannot posit that “there are always rules.” There are no rules, whether we choose to acknowledge rules or not. That is the de facto state of nature, and more power to the man who does away with all rules while empowering himself and the world. If the person is accomplishing something, and wants to avoid undue stress with a child’s company, it’s of no less evolutionary value. The supra-personal goal is not mutually exclusive compared to the lust for children. The act itself is essentially neutral until weighed against the Wyrd of the individual.
  • David Fritchman The very idea of Satanism asserts that we do not need to choose between being useful, powerful, or joyful. Pedophilia only becomes a problem when you begin putting up barriers to the Self and what you are willing to accept. Others may not accept what you do.
  • Ivan Grozny I’m glad I wasn’t born a pedo.
  • David Fritchman Agreed. Dodging the already rigid liberal laws of today is already difficult enough.
  • Ray Mörder Whether one chooses to acknowledge rules isn’t to say they simply don’t exist. Nature itself is full of rules, but I understand what it is you mean. Yet to do away with one set of rules is still to accept another, if even of one’s own design. There is evidence in abundance which suggests detriment to the development of the child’s psychology. Is this subjective and based on today’s standards? Most likely, yes. Is pedophilia necessary for evolution of the individual or otherwise? No.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I have a handful of friends who were molested as children and it damaged them greatly, and it wasn’t because someone told them it was socially unacceptable. It’s because they knew in their hearts at the time that it was wrong.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Who lives without being damaged?
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn No one. The point is to not contribute to that. You know, the whole compassion and empathy thing?
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Empathy has nothing to do with treating suffering as something which ought not exist.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn And everything to do with how we’re not separate from others and that others’ suffering is our own suffering and others’ joy is our own joy, and how certain actions are inherently distasteful and disruptive towards the delicate balance between Life and living beings.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi I think you will find some disagreement between many living things as to what is and is not “inherently” distasteful and disruptive.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Forcing yourself upon them would be among the exceptions.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Different values keep things interesting. One man’s exception is another man’s rule. Variety is the spice of life.
  • David Fritchman To catch up, none of our human desires are evolutionary. Evolution is a result of our transgressions. Yet, we must fulfill our desires to transcend them; moreover, to transcend something does not mean to do away with it, but to find its individuated place within your life. For some, pedophilia must be indulged and transcended, and if they as a being are evolutionary they will find a place for such action within the framework of their lives while still striving ever higher. MOST IMPORTANTLY: If we deny any lust/desire inherent within us, the psychological numbness resulting will be of greater detriment to our dialectic than ANY action we do choose to commit. Calling upon the relation to the Will to Power, it is instinctive to evolve, but we must be secure first, and for sentient life this includes the satisfaction of desires.
  • Ivan Grozny Reminds me of justify my love by Madonna…” poor is the man who denies his desires for the permission from another…
  • Ray Mörder Ivan, you would bring Madonna into this wink emoticon
  • David Fritchman Almost 50 exchanges of Sinister theory and philosophy about a highly controversial topic, and all we great minds can agree on is Madonna. I love this fucking life.
  • Ivan Grozny Song was on…got me thinking of fucking a transgender
  • Ivan Grozny I’ll admit to that one. Lets do this
  • David Fritchman You cannot fuck a tranny. That’s taboo.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi If I dress like a boy, you could bugger me, would that count?
  • Ivan Grozny First time I did it, I felt like I fucked baphomet
  • Ivan Grozny Could we play prison games Jayalalita Devi Dasi???
  • David Fritchman It’s only “prison” games if you let me lock you in a cage.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Paint me a picture, Ivan Grozny – you gonna buy me or take me?
  • Ivan Grozny You can be my celly, whom I’ve been sharing all my good commisary food with. You been asking how you could repay me….not sure if you are down?! 😈
  • David Fritchman No no no. I’m the warden, and I’ve strategically placed you in cells opposite one another so you can stare lustfully for the first few years of your imprisonment. You eventually fall madly in lust, but you’ve been stripped of shower priveleges, so your hopeless craving to hump each other relentlessly must overcome the stench of your filthy bodies. I am Warden, maker of gods, breaker of men.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi You gotta be the most naive warden ever to think that is going to stop funny business from going on. If I want to give Ivan Grozny a little suck ‘n fuck, there’s nooks that can be found for it.
  • Neo Apollotan To each his own…. Perhaps for some this kind of experience is “enlightening” in addition to just being sex with kids. Personally, don’t need this kind of experience to grow. I’ve got kids… Thus my visceral reaction is the punishment should be much worse than only death.
  • David Fritchman This must be your first stay in my prison if you think I’ve allowed any nooks. I’m staunch and pain-loving, and most of my attention is directed toward manipulating your existence behind bars.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Warden, I got a real wet mouth, you ain’t got to be so jealous, plenty to go around.
  • David Fritchman No jealousy. You’ll just look so much better and want me so much more after a dirty, starved, adrenaline-soaked inmate ravages you to bloody perfection. It’s all.. part.. of.. the plan smile emoticon
  • Elijah Wilson Actually in institututions such as prisons it is very common for misopedes to be targeted by the other inmates, by way of having somethoing known as a jacket put on them, in other words, they get marked for maiming and violent death, so to turn this thread into a running joke about prison sex shows how ignorant some are. As far as adult child sex in ancient Greece goes, there was only a limited amount of the population who were into it, specificly amongst the upper crust of Athenian society, which was by the way very liberal, a big part of when civilizations fall is when they become overly decadent, strength is gained through acts of moderation and self control, not through embracing the lack of control found amongst inferiors. Pedophilia and pederasty are magian values, that’s why so much of it occurs in the public schools and churches, boy scouts, etc. If we are superior to what we wish to topple? We must act contrary to how they act, which is to have honour in all matters and situations. Even in the third reich they placed misopedes in concentration camps, seeing as how that period of time has been used as a model for which to base many aspects of the ONA upon, I suggest we stay consistant, rather than lacking self restraint, to lack self restraint breeds mediocrity. Are we not trying to go beyond the mediocre? I would certainly hope so, it is a good sign that some here agree with my anti-misopede stance. As far as Peter Lamborn Wilson goes, he’s got a jacket on him, I hope for his sake he has removed his eyelids for when he sleeps? smile emoticon
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn We can’t get so caught up in trying to break taboos by entertaining the possibility that maybe, just MAYBE, kid fucking isn’t so perverse and degenerate, that we abandon the biggest taboo of all in modern society: moral absolutes defined not by man but by the Sinister itself. That includes staying true to one’s race, eschewing addictive behaviors, taking care of the body, and, of course, no. kid. fucking. Mental masturbation and meaningless pontification is a dangerous thing, especially when you begin to entertain notions that are not only completely false, but that you would never consider tasteful yourself.
  • Reuven Shiloah “Similarly in respect of what has been described as the ‘criteria of mundaneness’, with a mundane generally considered to be an adult, of sound body and mind, who does not live by the Code of Kindred Honour, and with the threshold of adulthood generally considered to be sixteen years of age, with some veering toward a threshold of fourteen and others toward eighteen.

    Is this criteria – first explicitly clarified by Anton Long in 2011 {5} – therefore, given that it was authored by Anton Long, an exception to the authority of individual judgement? If so, is it an authoritative, infallible, definition applicable to all who are O9A, making those who do not accept it, for whatever reason, not O9A?

    Given the foregoing, the answers should be obvious. It is for each individual to decide – to judge – for themselves, based on what they personally feel, on what they personally know, honour is. For they are the ultimate authority of what is ‘right’ and what is ‘wrong’. Not some consensus; not what someone else writes or says; not what a majority believe or assert; not what some group or organization declaims; not what some government or State enshrines in some law or laws; and not what some zeitgeist suggests or impels some people to feel.” – The Authority Of Individual Judgement – Interpretation And Meaning

    The Authority Of Individual Judgement – Interpretation And Meaning The authority of individual judgement is one of…
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I think calling it ‘individual judgment’ is a bit risky, as it allows for any-ol’-body to consider his or her own opinion gospel truth simply because some MS said it. Two things, in my estimation, can be said to be the true authority of all things SiniSee More
  • Reuven Shiloah Or, perhaps (moral absolutes notably excluded) – it could be said that the Satanic Heresy of the Order of the Nine Angles represents:

    1) An amoral, dangerous, practical, exeatic, devilish, way of life.

    2) A presencing of dark forces/acausal energies – a form/mythos – only relevant to the current Aeon.

    3) An unrestricted, amoral, diabolical, effective and affective, transformation/development of individual human beings by esoteric and exoteric means.

  • Neo Apollotan Yes, individual judgement…if an individual required so much time and logical reasoning to try to make up his or her mind on how to act when presented with a real situation, Id suspect that by default the”re not making much progress on any path.
  • Andras Snakeboy A Satanist has to be entirely reliant on individual judgement as he will bow to no authority or organisational creed, and then it is up to him or her to decide whether it befits their own life paths and evolutionary goals to break the law in whatever pSee More
  • Andras Snakeboy The thread has been saved as The Taboo of Pederasty in our blog
  • Nathaniel Mortlock It is very worrying, and somewhat sickening, to see people here excusing paedophilia. It seems occultism in general is riddled with these vile scum. I say kill them all. If anyone was ever a negative contribution to society, it is the paedos.
  • Neo Apollotan I rather think pseudo occultism is riddled with BS off all types…you have to ask, what is the ultimate goal of your quest? And will certain actions and experiences move you along? If you keep having or wanting to do the same thing over again or are obsessed with one kind of experience it would seem to indicate a lack of progress.
  • Andras Snakeboy My own individual judgement is that paedophilia especially of younger children would be disgusting even if was not illegal. It has absolutely no attraction for me and I think it reprehensible and of not benefit to anyone (if I was not clear above). YouSee More
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi There are plenty who would count homosexuality and/or human sacrifice as equally morally reprehensible acts as pederasty, unjustifiably unnatural and destructive to all that is good. Right and wrong are shadowy figures who dance however the light is cast upon them. Bear the light, dance in the shadows.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn But homosexuality doesn’t damage the psyche of the participants; and human sacrifice is a necessary act to weed out corrosive elements from society. There’s nothing shadowy about it; it’s all actually quite concrete.
  • Neo Apollotan It’s hard for me to conceive homosexuality and human sacrifice as being on the same comparative spectrum, the underlying motivations seem completely different as do the real or perceived benefits of their completion.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi It is likewise difficult, even impossible, for those who see homosexuality and human sacrifice as inherently wrong to be able to conceive of them in any terms but how wrong they are.
  • Andras Snakeboy Without sounding wishy washy and gay I kind of see both sides of the argument here. To denounce anything as ‘wrong’ seems to me to create moral absolutes that can only be defended by creating a god. I really don’t believe in evil. Everything is relative and utterly dependent on context. That’s theory. In real life we are dependent on contextual constraints and the desire to retain freedom. Oh I have many tines heard it said that gay men are the same as paedophiles and I kind of see the point. On a very personal note I will admit that I find lesbian women kissing a very odd sight. A bit rich coming from from me!!!!
  • Andras Snakeboy PS is not killing worse than paedophilia if you believe in ranking these things?
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn It’s possible to kill someone with honor; it’s never possible to rape or fuck children honorably.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Why must it be a matter of rape and abuse?
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I thought that was the subject we were on?
  • Neo Apollotan Jayalalita Devi Dasi I can agree with your stance. Some of the points brought up recently really strike a chord with fundamental conceptions we all have. Thus while I view pedophilia as abhorrent, sexuality between adults I view as being the right ofSee More
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi I thought the subject was pederasty and similar relations between an older and younger party, which are not abusive in nature.
  • Neo Apollotan ….never drop acid at the airport……
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn The way I see it, pederasty is comparable to a shitty landlord who uses craigslist to sell their apartments instead of taking out an ad in the classifieds. Are they really so shitty that they have to resort to craigslist instead of paying a bit for an ad in the paper? Same with pedophiles. Are they really so shitty that they have to seduce/groom/fuck a young person (with particular reference to those whose age is in the single digits) when there are plenty of perfectly fine people their own age? It’s like that one creepy fuck who graduated high school years ago and still goes to high school parties and gets teenage girls drunk so he can get in their pants. That’s what we’re dealing with here; we’re not talking about some noble ancient greek pedagogue who’s preparing his pupils for reality, we’re talking about slippery, slimy, snakey shits who can’t pull someone their own age so he has to resort to little girls who don’t know any better and who are only attracted to older guys. I’ve never known anyone younger than 25 who dated someone 10 years younger than them who I would consider ‘savory’. If you’ve ever known a disgusting shit like that, you’d understand why kid fucking is a problem and is inherent in problematic individuals.
  • Neo Apollotan Jayalalita Devi Dasi I think relations as you describe between a young and old (er) person are in fact abusive given the imbalance in experience, purpose, and ability of psychological resilience. Do you make your statement based on some kind of experience or ideal?
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn I remember one of my history teachers telling me that pedagogues were generally abusive as fuck, and that the history of education is the history of educators becoming less and less abusive.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Human relations are complex, and especially for those of a sinister nature. I neither specifically advocate nor flatly reject the possibility of many sorts of relations which may occur in the lifetime of an individual, whatever their age. I think it perfectly possible for a younger party to be the more experienced, the more wise, the more sinister, knowing, and cunning, and can easily be the dominant force, or even the predatory being, in a situation. It is not always a cut-and-dried case of an older person taking advantage of a younger person. Anything is possible, and everyone has their own wyrd to ken, and threads to be intwined with.
  • Kevin Rockhill Sex with children and/or grooming young people for sexual gratification is abhorrent and anyone who does it needs to be in a hole in the ground IMO, no satanic or sinister philosophy would change my verdict. I don’t buy a young person seducing an older person unless they have some sort of learning disability, where they don’t have capacity. I respect an individuals right to do it, though they need to understand the consequences of their action. Such debates are good as we learn about our personal boundaries. If one considered such actions acceptable in some circumstances, does that mean they would let such things happen to their children or a friends children?
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi Incest presents interesting possibilities.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi What I find curious is that the minds of so many of you men turn automatically to abuse, damage, rape, violence. Do not forget that force is not the way for all love. Do not forget that for some affinity and tenderness are also paths to power.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Lol. You got me there missus.. tongue emoticon
  • Nathaniel Mortlock Tenderness? Like when Daddy comes in th bedroom for a cuddle, you mean? I think I might have just been a bit sick over the keyboard.

  • Andras Snakeboy I was taken advantage of in a predatory and extremely manipulative fashion by someone much younger than me who was far more Satanic than I – not a kid though. So close up I couldnt see it
  • Andras Snakeboy Served me right. Good experience in retrospect
  • Andras Snakeboy In retrospect it was like an insight role and taught me more about sinister manipulation than two years a Muslim
  • Mike Black It’s an intresting dynamic, creating both the monster and the angry mob. Creating a problem only to enact premeditated solution. Personally I think the world is far more colorful with such creatures in the shadows-you gotta love the boogeyman. Predators do have a funnyway of eventually becoming prey though. smile emoticon
  • Andras Snakeboy Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris. Such deception
  • Andras Snakeboy As in cloaked for decadesc
  • Elijah Wilson While not everyone who was once a little kid and got fucked by an adult walks away damaged by it or becomes a molestor themsleves, quoite a few who have end up becoming such a thing. I’ve seen mention on this thread of teenage sexuality, that’s not what I had in mind when i brought this up, but adult males who prey upon little boys specificly. I think sometimes such experiences do in fact make those who were victimised much stronger and resiliant later on in life, but that’s no rationalisation of any typem or a defense for said behaviors. There were times and places in the past when most lived much shorter lives and most lived in rural and agrarian settings, so they had little or no choice but to mate earlier, to help out with survival and labor purposes, but those days are largely long gone, so I feel we must move past it and stay vigilant. It’s not that i care for all children, but many children are future and potential future sinister types who must be protected from those who would harm or kill them. The lower animals often protect their young until it is time to let them go, we who have kids or know kids close to us should extend the same consideration for the offspring of the sinister and potential sinister. I went through a lot of bullying and childhood abuse, it took me a long time to overcome it and move past it, everything tha6t happened to me occured in the realms of mundanity, not in sinister settings. So in conclusion allies and potential allies, I stand opposed to the sexual abuse of children and I’m beyond glad many of you do as well, When the magian paradigm and wya of life collapses, when there is no “law” to protect such cowards, they will be lured and culled.
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Well, Characterless persons are worthy for Opfering, yes.. Do you feel like entertaining the Honour? I’d probably do it..if I could.

My apocalypse

My Apocalypse. As a Native American I see the modern world as my people’s post apocalypse. I identify with Satanism because the western devil has more in common with my my people’s past than its God. The O9A follows many beliefs that any Native would agree with absolutely only leaving out the word Sinister, since the Path as it is spoken of is not sinister, merely plain spoken reality. The world is hard so we must be hard. Manipulation is just the way the world works. We know because we were defeated through manipulation. A warrior’s spirit is only useful is the warrior is not a fool. The western Satan isn’t evil. Nothing is your bible that he does isn’t evil. In fact, unlike the western God , his greatest sin is telling the truth. No real point here. Just meditating on these facts.


Painting Satanic sigils in all the isolated churches in an area ins certain pattern would surely create some minor flooding at the very least. I wonder if there is a specific rite to use as a template

Andras Snakeboy on sacrifice

On the Sinister Tradition:

Humans are obsessed with the generation of dark or acausal energies and they perform sacrifices to generate these forces all the time, in every put down, argument, row, violent encounter, divorce, fraud, theft, they open wounds in others that release acausal energies that benefit them and either damage or – possibly – benefit in the long run their victims – hence the saying what does not kill you makes you stronger. The competitive spirit is in fact the determination to sacrifice others. This is human nature and the truth of the way we live. The scale of sacrifice is at its largest in mass destruction but descends right down to the petty snub. THIS is what the church calls Evil but it is no such thing, it is merely the evolutionary drive.

ONA and rejecting national socialism

Do you think it is possible to follow the O9A philosophy yet reject National Socialism. Being non-Caucasian I find the racial aspects hilarious. Being the descendent of a genocide I follow a very Nietzsche-ian Darwinism. I see the racial arguments of National Socialism as excuses for weakness. I believe the truly sinister path can only be traveled by a survivor. To me Neo-Nazis are pathetic. Your race means nothing if you yourself are not strong. Blame the Jews. Blame the Blacks. Black everyone, but yourself. If you truly believed in the superiority of the white man you would do a culling. Let the weak die so the strong may survive. That’s just my opinion though.

  • Salim Sogiv You should take the time to read Myatt’s writings on National-Socialism then make your decision.
  • Jayalalita Devi Dasi When it comes to subversion, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn National Socialism isn’t just for whites. But it’s all about what you do to presence the Dark, not what -ism you adhere to.
  • Danilo Pestana Any kind of dangerous or extremist way is a way. You need to test yourself. National Socialism is a tool to a even bigger aim. The elimination of the human dross, the coming of Vindex and the preparation to a Satanic Aeon.
  • Aulywnd Caeleth “I follow a very Nietzsche-ian Darwinism. ” So…National Socialism?

    It needs to be borne in mind how NS can be applied to any race.

  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Neo-Nazism is for racists who want to blame the world’s problems on minorities. NS is for truly strong individuals who are or aspire to become the world’s true elite, not because of the color of their skin, but because of the content of their character.
  • Aulywnd Caeleth But…Jews are to blame for everything :’)
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Shhhhh… We don’t talk about that. Cocksuckerburg is watching. wink emoticon
  • Aulywnd Caeleth *inserts edgy meme*
  • Elijah Wilson Not all who followed or do follow National Socialism are white, a good example of what i mean is the ressurgence of interest in it over in Asia, but even in regards to World War 2, many who voluntered for the Axis side were not of European blood. You have to remember what the word Aryan means, it means noble. If one’s conduct is not noble? They likewise are not noble, this has nothing to do with physical wealth or what family ou were born into, but WHO you ARE deep down inside and how you live your life. But to toss aside National Socialism while identifying as ONA/O9A is to throw the bay out of the bathwater, because anyone who’s ever readthe older materials that Anton Long and David Myatt wrote, they make clear of the nature of the influences at play.
  • Reuven Shiloah What is the opinion of group members – in lieu of the OP and subsequent posts – which by and large (in regard to the latter) posit a non-racist iteration of NS (or at least “racially inclusive”) with DWM’s documented involvement and/or hand in forming such groups as the “White Wolves” and Combat 18? Clearly in regard to groups such as C18, there is a clear indication of “neo-nazi” in the sense that some O9A people consider distasteful, to wit:

    *I haven’t put the full title on purpose because it could get it taken down|By Chingford Attack
  • Salim Sogiv I accept all forms (neo-nazis, phineas priesthood, jihadists, etc). I also accept “tribes of sinister individuals” and dreccs who uphold the same essence of the others. The form is only as important as it is used to pass on the desired goals.
  • Andras Snakeboy Learn from anything and also anything that tests you can be an insight role. But never follow or join or subscribe to anything (including ONA) – that’s my view. The NS I am interested in is my own. Too many find it hard to switch off this reflex to become a member (Magian mind pollution) But at the end of the day you’re on your own Buster.
  • Andras Snakeboy (Matters of the heart aside)
  • Anne Hillio Well said. I agree completely.
  • David Fritchman National Socialism is simply a very accessible Sinister form for white people. Although being of white descent and a National Socialist is not an indicator of racist ideology, it is no less an inherently racialist ideology, and it is important to recognize the difference maturely. National Socialism did sprout from the long burning ashes of pagan culture and spirituality, and in many regards functions as a secular Satanism. Ultimately, this exact same Satanic ethos is manifest in other forms (i.e.- Odinism, Anarchy, Transhumanism) and nothing needs to be embraced in order for an individual to walk the Seven-Fold Way..
  • Anne Hillio Is it supposed to be so easy? Don’t we white people have it easy enough already? (especially white men, you fuckers get away with so much shit it’s ridiculous)…if being sinister was so easy then the whole world would claim to be ONA wouldn’t they? I’See More
  • Aulywnd Caeleth Anne Hillio “‘m certain that there are far more insidious, dangerous and therefore life affirming ways of living”

    Such as?

  • Aulywnd Caeleth You’re all fucking pussies making excuses because NS terrifies you. Simple.
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Rounin’ Spring..for The Blood..of Family..
    The Dear Withering..In the Dire Therrning, of The Eirans’ Aryan Communities – the Calcination Goes Inwardly, Until the Nexus Booms, and Resonates..In the Aeons..
    Of the Dear Withering, of that Cherrning Rounin
    ‘ – Of that Sickle’s Eiran Nation, and the AlieNation of the Swastical; AryaNation, of The Folk, with their Families Must Go On, within the Wuthering Mounds of the Cavernous Caves, and Grottoes..of these Withering Rónnors’ Rúnning, of the Rúins..of the Forts of the War, and the Subsequent Skirmishes, the Fray, dose Go On, with the North Hill (of the Fortress Lis’ta’s Festung Lis’ The Wreck’Take, of the Norwegian, and Thulean, Vril, Black Sun’s Irminsulian, Black Drage, and Black Stone), of that These Five dose Complement the Rigid forces of The Yew’s, the Older’s Grey, Black..White – Burguny, dilated Night..Mare, of the Lis’ta’s Liv’Take, and That newfound Liz’ Mari, of that Way..Ward – the Black, Morten’s Benighted Mares, and the Incubi, of his Nightly Murmurs – of these Astral Projections..on the Dream Travels, that’ll Await in the Astral Dreamings, where they’d Do on the Level of the Astral Planes too.. Dissent Begins in Many Forms, Shaped Out, of an Essence, or that Aryan Devilution, that gets In With The Devil, whereas We Are.!
    – Shablor, and Els’Lis’Beth..
    NB! ..Thus, to Regard The Parted Waters, of the Cherrning..THerrning, and Rounin’ Withering..of the Exeat, of the Eirans, one needs to Also consider The Putrefaction, and the Control.. NB! Just Ward the Primeval Uralten, one Would Want to Like. But, as Always, When the Deed Dose Its Self (as for the Churrning..) the Dead Deer are Always Dragged Away from the Rivers, whereas We’ll’d Give In to the Seminoblat, where There’d Be..Samalota, and That does Do some, one Thing duly Way..Ward!
    P.S.: In Wanton On the Primeaval Prime..of The Promordial Ooze..(In that We’ve Got, to her, with Our Croaking, and Our Ax’..Dosen’t One KNow, whereas the Real World War (of the Fifth, Great WW..In, and During The Se7enth, Aionic Age..(of The Sub-Humaness, of That Wanting, that dose Go On, in The Venting..of These’s Ventures, (in The Realms..of The Gods, which’ll Feature a Chaos, of Anarchic Rents..of That Withdrawn (then..) Imperial, Wordly, Perfect SunnO))), with Their Revealing, of the Crimson Gate..of That Way..Ward!)
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Remember: No Morals.! Are there Any Here who Doesn’t Revel, in an’ Roun’ the Concept of War?
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen I Know, I Experiat Going the Cracking of My Mirrors, in that I actually Had to Reveal the Characterless, and Dis-Honourable Monsters of Children, in that I nearly Came to them..the Sub-Humans..
  • Aulywnd Caeleth A classic example of someone who finds comfort for their neurosis in the labyrinth of occultism.
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Well, That’s your Thought..But, I am simply Exeating, in the Way that I am, more often than naught..Seeding..for my Communions. Ha ha. lol.
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen I Know, I Experiat Going the Cracking of My Mirrors, in that I actually Had to Reveal the Characterless, and Dis-Honourable Monsters of Children, in that I nearly Came to them..the Sub-Humans..
  • Andras Snakeboy Excuses? Well so terribly sorry I don’t have a mini concentration camp in my garden with special extra deadly gases for Jewish kids. Sorry about that. Pathetic I know.
  • Andras Snakeboy PS can we avoid gobbledegook here?
  • Aulywnd Caeleth That’s hyperbole, almost straw man in it’s fallacy, monseiur
  • Anne Hillio Aulywnd Caeleth – You could join the FAI/IAF, you could take up illegalism as a general principle, start a religious sect, get involved in local politics and exert your influence that way. There is a fuckload that could be done instead of sucking Hitlers dick and being a historical revisionist like most people here. It seems to me that the NS thing has taken precedence because it speaks to the kind of superiority most people think they have for no reason.
  • Aulywnd Caeleth Maybe I’ve done all of the above.
    The fact is, cults (Hare Krishna), political subversive sects (communism), and all these alternatives draw little malignation from the state and the system. So few draw the archetypal fear and awe that NS does.
  • David Fritchman National Socialism is a dead form, though. Worthy of remembrance for its philosophical value, but having proved itself too weak to fulfill its purpose.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn As long as people acknowledge it for what it is–that is, a FORM no more or less capable of presencing the Essence than any other -ism–then I see no harm in using a ‘dead’ form. I feel, regardless of what is said in MSS regarding the use of forms, that beliefs and systems from the past can be made ‘alive’ through the people that use it–given that the people that use it are an open Nexion.
  • Reuven Shiloah As they say, the devil is in the detail.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Ha. One of my favorite sayings.
  • Will Parry How do you measure dead-ness of a “form”? Concept is not weak of itself; rather the strength is supplied by human spirit. So shall we rather say that majority people is incompatible with nature of NS?
  • Will Parry In regards to essence and form, I admit I am short of understanding here. Essence to me is a core concept, the is-ness itself. Is there just one essence or several of them? What is the essence of communism and what of NS? Are we saying they are the same? If they are the same, explain to me how communism can contribute to furtherance of what has been called Western spirit.
  • Reuven Shiloah That there are Ukranians bearing arms against the Russian state (whatever opinion one may have on that particular conflict notwithstanding) openly identifying themselves as NS is something worthy of mention – credit given where credit due:

    The House of Representatives unanimously adopted…
  • Aulywnd Caeleth Will Parry in regards to form vs. essence, see a form as being judged by it’s ability to affect Change.
  • Will Parry If that is the goal then many isms are good enough. Not good enough for me though. I don’t want sheep which is the result of communism for example.
  • Aulywnd Caeleth While I have held a long abiding disdain of Communism, I understand the terror it holds in the minds of many and the fanaticism it can breed creates a sort of secular Jihad in the minds of many. Beyond Trotsky’s New Man idea however, I see little proof it could be used to further Sinister aims, beyond creating a feudal dictatorship ruled by Adepts.
  • Donar Van Holland National Socialism is simply ethnic nationalism. You can be a non-white National Socialist. Whites must be proud and strong again, and German NS can help them. No man is an island, and the good of your people is also your own good. If blacks or Jews commit crimes against white peoples they must be destroyed. And there is a huge amount of these crimes.
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Well, Race creates Identity, as part to one’s Identity..Same with Folk, and/or Family..I ‘Think’..
  • Morten Shablor Jacobsen Yes, that’s True..National-Socialism IS..truly For Any One!!


ACAUSAL BEINGS. And this is a serious question or rather musing. Sinister tradition teaches about the acausal beings who can manifest themselves and their energies in the causal. They are Sinister and chaotic. But I wonder this – does this theory or experience leave open the possibility that some acausal beings are ‘good’ … albeit admitting that Myatt is quite clear that the acausal is a realm where good and evil are meaningless.. But if so how can the acausal beings be seen as Dark?

  • Salim Sogiv Because the current sytem views them as “Dark” due to the qualities they represent because They are being explained through a specific lens for the new initiate.
  • Humberto Ulfhednar I think it’s because of the energies are chaotic and predatoriais.
    Making this distinction
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn ‘Good’ and ‘evil’ are causal abstractions and as such distort our perception of acausality, so perhaps some can be seen as ‘good’ but not without losing sight of their physis. Acausal beings are ‘dark’ in the sense that they lay hidden from ordinary perception, but that does not mean that they are all actually beings of darkness. Lucifer, for instance, is often experienced as a brilliant entity of light and comfort. Angels are also very light-oriented beings. The demons of the Goetia run the gamut, light, dark, benevolent, malevolent, and everything in between.
    18 hrs · Like · 1
  • Kevin Rockhill If you work with the idea of non dualism, concepts like good and evil become meaningless.
    18 hrs · Like · 2
  • Salim Sogiv Besides ‘Dark’ attracts more specific flies than ‘Light’ does.
  • Salim Sogiv Beginners do not work from that perspective. The writings are for beginners so they use certain terms. Now, at some point, certain ones move past it but by then the writings are not necessary anyways.
  • Vovin Malpirg For sometime it hasn’t been explained to me what is acausal and causal. ..would this group mind letting me know what are these terms. So I can understand them. Would appreciate it greatly!
  • Andras Snakeboy Basically causal is this reality. The acausal is the Satanic dimension outside our space time. I can point you to all the materials on acausal theory and how the acausal is made manifest by rites. There are some brilliant writings outside Myatt’s – I do that tomorrow. Some members here know a lot more than me
    18 hrs · Like · 2
  • Andras Snakeboy For now. Sorry it is side on.
  • Andras Snakeboy Acausal theory is endlessly interesting. Hence ONA is not really about Satan (he is there tho) but about the Dark Gods – and about concepts and energies that go far beyond labels
  • Ivan Grozny I do not believe in dark gods (aliens) which are dark due to their cosmic unconsciousness. Until I meet them. Ffs. I may as well believe in Jesus. Seriously though I really want to meet baphomet. Or serve her some bodies or something..mnn
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn >There is the causal universe, governed by the laws of science, and the acausal universe, governed by a set of laws not yet scientifically delineated.
    >The causal universe exists independently of our consciousness and can thus be known by way of the fi
    ve physical senses; the acausal universe intersects with our consciousness and thus can be known by way of personal experience and empathy.
    >The causal universe is governed by the laws of time and space and linear cause and effect. The acausal universe is beyond time and space and linear cause and effect, and as such acausal energy can produce change in the causal universe that is not limited by time and space; in other, less accurate terms, the miraculous belongs to the acausal.

    Any questions?

  • Ivan Grozny I think some folks go a bit far with this ascausal shit.
  • Andras Snakeboy A few ONA have elaborated ideas about how quantum physics confirms acausal theory
  • Ivan Grozny Yea yea Matt. Love you homie
  • Andras Snakeboy (Matt always sweeps in with a tidal wave of brilliance)
    18 hrs · Edited · Like · 2
  • Ivan Grozny Ok gotta go figure out how I’m gonna pay my rent. Just stopped in for a sec
    18 hrs · Like · 1
  • Andras Snakeboy Great Satanic women hold the Essence of Baphomet. I know this. But what little old me wants to understand is HOW ACAUSAL ENERGY ANIMATES US!! As explained in Grimoire of Baphomet
  • Ivan Grozny I ask Christians what is a souls color and weight…..we just may never know.
  • Ivan Grozny Oh yea…lightning blue and weighs a couple grams.
  • Aulywnd Caeleth “A few ONA have elaborated ideas about how quantum physics confirms acausal theory”

    I would enjoy seeing what this idiocy entails.

  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn If you look at living beings, they defy the laws of physics in that they move and change without any external force acting upon them. That is, their change is inherent within them; they act without causation; and thus, presence acausal change. The greater the levels of acausal energy within an organism, the greater its order and complexity. When an organism ceases to live, its acausal energy dissipates and its change is no longer inherent within it; that is, it can no longer act and change without some external force acting upon it.
    18 hrs · Like · 2
  • Aulywnd Caeleth Unless certain measures are taken during one’s causal life.
    18 hrs · Like · 1
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Exactly–and thus is the aim of internal alchemical change: to solidify one’s acausal form so that the consciousness, the ‘soul’, may continue to operate once this causal meat puppet can no longer function.
  • Ivan Grozny In no mine Satanis. I hope this is all true…although it would still be worth all the experience.
  • John Hope What you said about good and evil being meaningless Andras is interesting, it’s difficult to comprehend or even begin to grasp a consciousness without a physical presence (Earthly dimensional presence). A friend once told me an analogy that entities are like scientists with a rat, they don’t cause pain or suffering through emotional need or urges. And yet they act so callously through wanting to understand and examine us Human creatures who DO have a body and a Earthly grounding. They really are beyond Human perception of good & evil (Dark et al), closest you could come would be to see them as computer programmed, they just arrange themselves to each thing.
  • John Hope And when you start to contemplate this you’ll see a real fear, past anything that’s usual Human fear, But how scary the situation really is.
  • Ivan Grozny This is why^^^^ if they do exist I expect them to have telepathy, and pardon my humanity.
    15 hrs · Like · 1
  • John Hope Ivan exactly! True, of course a Being of this nature is capable of telepathy, as well as many other things, but if you look at the Hebrew scriptures the one thing they can’t do is materialise into Earthly solid form, if you believe in all that, Jehovah kind of said enough is enough old chap, you can’t fuck the women of Earth stick to where you belong. They can as we all know just manipulate natural process to make manifestations or emanations.
  • John Hope We all like to know the origin of the words we use in our modern language, it’s interesting stuff, so when someone says ”Soul” ? Isn’t the farthest you can trace that word to Greek word psy·kheʹ? which only ever meant the LIFE of an animal or Human. We undoubtedly have energy Qi etc, but think carefully bros about whether or not the soul is a real thing. I’m sure the soul is just the body, nothing conscious after death. But it’s all highly debatable I know, very interesting too!
  • Kevin Rockhill An interesting idea, though is there any objective evidence that consciousness can survive the death of the physical body? The idea is appealing but without evidence is it not just another spiritual pipe dream.
  • Laina Reiver Personally, I can work with the Acausal paradigm, its the Acausal Beings where I grumble, as it implies either the whole “Lands of the Dark Immortals” thing of 7th Sphere continuance, or perhaps some pre-existing “spook” beings who possess external motive.
    …suspiciousness abounds!

    Hope folks add more to this thread though! smile emoticon

  • Neo Apollotan …as odd as this may sound….it takes time first to get used to the idea of “the acausal” what it is (and isn’t) and then eventually, under the right circumstances to interact with it on its terms (not your usual senses). as with anything… You can eventually gain experience and delve further… I’ve “seen” acausal forces…. They’ve communicated concepts to me…. And over time I’ve learned to identify how they slither into the cracks of everyday causal life…. Some are terrifying, some helpful, etc…Call me crazy…. But that’s the truth.
    12 hrs · Like · 1
  • Laina Reiver Personally, I came to ONA/Cliology etc from a Jung/Heidegger stance, so struggle with any knowing of external elements prior to one first having dissolved the haze of archetypal/existential spaghetti that exists between the causal and acausal – something which can take a lifetime.
    Still, if one can claim to come to a certain knowing without preconception I’m all for learning before my time runs out! : )
  • Neo Apollotan … One of the more interesting, and difficult things I’ve learned about “internal” exploration is that reading only gets you so far….there is real, hard, work involved with first understanding things like archetypes… And then seeing the, in a non-jungian manner (eg acausal entibies are not archetypes to me, neither is Satan). Also, to understand your own psychological geometry and landscape…. And then to tear it down…. Real exploration requires this…. And it’s not for kids.
    11 hrs · Like · 1
  • Vovin Malpirg Let me try my best to understand this…I am the Causal and when I’m interacting with SATAN as The Diety and speak in meditation or trance with the Demons that’s Acausal. When I manifest my will I’m utilizing my Causal self with the Acausal realms. Making my own being inside me changing within the Causal plane utilizing the Acausal influences. ..does that make any sense …
  • Neo Apollotan Vovin Malpirg I’m not sure I follow….there is some need to first intellectually understand the difference between acausal and causal dimensions as well as how they are manifested in and through you….. This depends on your own unique characteristics…. And only you can really figure it out.
  • Neo Apollotan The idea is that once you do figure it out, you can tap into or draw from the Acausal in a purposed manner in various ways through various channels.
  • Laina Reiver Yep, the only way to realistically engage with (and strip away) an archetypal form is by living it, but like so much else, it is ultimately form, preconception etc.
    Is there a way out of the loop? – ie: can we ever know something, purely, without preco
    See More
  • Neo Apollotan Good question, i don’t know the answer… But the onion analogy is true. I’ve been able to peel layers (causal programs if you will) off…some come back others not. Again, very challenging to purposely tinker with your psychology and go to work on Monday. But again, this is only part of the game… Once you realize. You have all these layers of programming… And finally you learn to peel them off… What next? At this point regular life seems really blasé.
  • Vovin Malpirg This has been the first time I’ve used these terms …not sounding naive. ..just doing my best explain it from my own personal experience on how I felt those terms applied with myself.
  • Neo Apollotan That’s cool, the files in the group have lots of material and you’ll then find more.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • John Hope The person who got it the best when it came to some the stuff we’re talking about, is John Keel, his book Our Haunted Planet is a must read for anyone involved with o9a.
    5 hrs · Edited · Unlike · 3
  • Vovin Malpirg Thank you for at least bearing with me….just doing my best to explain and understand with the terms that I’m now learning to understand the meaning ov. .so Thank you !
    5 hrs · Unlike · 1
  • Andras Snakeboy If you can’t find a glossary Vovin then let me know and I will track it down. I heartily recommend this too
  • Andras Snakeboy Interesting John never heard of that
  • Andras Snakeboy For anyone interested:
  • Andras Snakeboy If you didn’t know John, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Star Trek were major influences on David Myatt who was once obsessed with emulating Mr Spock. I also believe the ONA mythos was also heavily influenced by the TV sci fi mini series Babylon 5. And why not.
    4 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
  • John Hope No I didn’t know about that! it’s very interesting and quite logical though.
  • Andras Snakeboy The whole concept of Star Gates derives initially from Myatt going to see 2001 at the cinema, but is developed with authenticity as it was fleshed out with a sound knowledge of occult tradition, and history and literature and philosophy in general
  • Aulywnd Caeleth Only direct experience can help one understand truly. Speaking from personal experience, the old adage ‘by their scents shall ye know them’ applies, particulalry in regard to the ‘female’ Ones.
    4 hrs · Unlike · 1
  • Neo Apollotan Andras Snakeboy thanks for the link. I’ll read. I had the impression that AL was heavily influenced by Jung. Though the use of the terminology is different, there are many similarity as well. See jungs Synchronicity with AL’s Urantia paper.
    3 hrs · Unlike · 1
  • Andras Snakeboy This thread has become too rich to absorb quickly but I would ask: does the ONA theory of the acausal rule out Angels (I bloody hope so!)

A Sinisterly Numinous hex


Begin the working by ringing the bell 13 times, each time intoning ‘Agios o Gaubni’ and visualizing the Dark God’s sigil.

Visualize yourself near a flowing river in a sacred grove. No one but you knows of this secret place. You are in total seclusion from the hectic, stressful outside world. The sound of birds chirping softly fills the cool mountain air, the skies above are without a single cloud, and the soothing sound of the river flowing eases your mind into a gentle state of serenity. The water is crystal clear; so crystal clear that you can perfectly make out the features of the person whose head you’re holding underwater. They struggle, writhing desperately in an attempt to outpower you, but to no avail. The bubbles stop; the person is no longer moving. In a sensuous moment of orgasm-like release, their life force is released from their body and seeps into the water all around him, dissipating into nothingness, dissolving all that are, were, and will ever be into the eternal void, never to reincarnate again. Now take one last deep breath, and say to yourself, “It is done.”


I want to open an question.
Kissing book Morana, the image has the secrecy Velpecula.
What is the connection Morana and the dark god Velpecula?

Physical training and sigil visualisation

The latest topic of physical aspects,,, lead me to this random image. I have learned that staring at this sigil between sets. increases my power and sets while doing pushups in this room.I imagine myself becoming more powerful than the gods.The gods who are meek and timid….they hide. An associate whom I will not name inspired me.🌙🍷

Ivan Grozny's photo.
  • You, Ray Mörder, Waren S Gnobe and 2 others like this.
  • Andras Snakeboy VERY significant I will try it too, During workouts that is
  • Andras Snakeboy When I started in Satanism gazing at sigils starting giving me raging hard-ons. Lasted for months. This is true.
  • Ivan Grozny As i child mom told me to stare at stars till i fall asleep….she was kinda on to something.
  • Andras Snakeboy Sigils hold power i am sure of that.
  • Ivan Grozny We give them their power perhaps?!
  • Andras Snakeboy I have no idea, but it works.
  • Neo Apollotan I use sigil visualization techniques on a regular basis either while running, but more effectively during yoga practice sessions. Especially Ashtanga… I pick a sigil and then try to visualize it throughout the 90 minute practice… Sometimes with some real outstanding results, other times I lose it. A few times, between the heavy breathing… The exertion etc its launched me into a state where the thinking completely stops… Really powerful.
  • Ivan Grozny Starting to run soon. I will try it. I may need the extra motivation. I really hate running.
  • Neo Apollotan One the one hand it is motivating…a bit, but I think the real value comes in being able to hold the visualization for a long period of time. At first, e image will fade quickly… You’ll drop it in a matter of seconds, but after a few tries you’ll be able to hold …. And then Other things start to happen….shit…Ben doing this for years…try this while you’re doing an Ashtanga primary series…
  • Ivan Grozny Idk that sigil couldnt fade.
  • Matt Dalton Wilbourn Neo Apollotan I do the same visualization exercise whilst running; as for yoga I prefer to visualize infinite darkness (the Abyss) while simultaneously focusing on the subtle energies within and around me. I’ll have to try out your way soon.

    And Andras, what if I told you that the sigil has no power of its own, but actually serves as a trigger for certain internal psychic responses that results in the production of acausal energy? Exactly (and I mean exactly) how a quartz tetrahedron is only a stone and a shape without a human operator, so the sigils are only squiggles and dots without a psyche to interact with. It’s because of how they (both the crystal and the sigil) react with the inner nexion to facilitate the flow of energy. Consider the example of a brick of sodium in a kiddie pool; on their own they have no power, but place the brick of sodium in the kiddie pool and the two elements react to unleash massive amounts of energy. In summary, sigils (and the crystal tetrahedron, which itself is a symbol/sigil of the Nine Angles) are vessels which must be filled with psychic energy in order to become ‘alive’, and the character/physis of the now-living sigil–the shape, the pattern, that the psychic energy thus assumes–depends largely on the geometry of the sigil. We give them the power, then the sigil does the rest.

    As for holding visualizations, to me its comparable to treading water. Some are born able to do it instinctively to whatever degree, some can’t do it at all. But it can be learned really quite easily, and it doesn’t take long before one can do it for as long as needed until one naturally gives out to exhaustion–physical as in treading water, mental as in visualization. And it’s worth mentioning that when one is able to hold visualizations without effort, they can begin to assume a life of their own, becoming real in their own way. Anyone who has done the pathworkings will understand what I mean by this. The mechanics here is no different from charging sigils; only visualizations of images is a largely internal experience that rarely has noticeable external effects, while sigils are more likely to produce external effects as well as internal. The differences between the two can be experienced by undertaking separate pathworkings for the Sinister Tarot and the Dark Gods.

  • Andras Snakeboy Very very like. I got a detail obsessive brain and that might help too